Swansea Crown Court heard Niall Wakley's life-long ambition to become a Marine will probably now happen. I would recommend this planting technique to any other farmer.". Just trying to let the grass on the rest of the property come away and there is so much under the gums it seems a shame not to use it for the sheep. Weld mesh tree guards are manufactured from 12 gauge galvanised wire with 25mm x 75mm grid size. US. Sure they've eaten the low branches and leaves from my plum trees, but the scratching/rubbing damage is worse. The value and vulnerability of the crop; 2. California accepts petition to protect western Joshua tree. Has anyone any cheap innovative ideas to protect young trees to be planted from sheep .Wanted to avoid knocking fencing posts in and chestnut fencing because it's hard work and I would need to hire some one with tractor .And I would probably need to find a whole days work for him and that would be a lot of trees I would end up having to plant. The traditional alternatives are putting fences around each sapling or buying larger trees which require bigger excavation for the roots. Contractors, equipment operators, and workers should be informed of the importance of protecting trees … It is true that you should do it properly, but as the sheep are arriving tomorrow chicken wire wrapped loosely around the trunks will help until you can do the work. 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Back; Threats to woods and trees Campaign with us Take action in your community ... From weeding and watering to pruning and pest checks, our tips will help your new trees thrive. Sheep, cattle and horses need to be kept away from newly planted trees until they reach a height where young leaves cannot be eaten and to an age where they can withstand trunk damage. The time period that the crop may be vulnerable to deer damage; 5. Plant a sapling vertically in sloping ground and the animals will strip away the easily-reachable leaves, including the leading shoot, and the tree soon dies. Make sure the fence is large enough so donkeys can’t … FARMERS in Wales are being urged to plant new trees at right angles to sloping ground. eelcat;463593 wrote: Our sheep would eat them [}]. Weld Mesh Tree Shelter Guards are the best solution when tree planting or wanting to protect established trees against livestock, sheep or deer, that can cause lasting damage to trees. What's new Search. NZ made tree protectors that act as mini greenhouse for strong seedling growth, grow your young trees up to five times faster and protect from weather and pests. Sign up for my monthly newsletter!Get all the latest news along with practical tips and expert advice. If the sheep are not too hungry, you can mix up rotten eggs with white vinyl paint and brush or spray it onto the trees. Whist fencing is the best way to protect young trees from horses and other large livestock, there are many imaginative ways to protect them from small livestock. Good luck. so i can graze the sheep in there over winter. He said yesterday, "The idea of no-fence planting appeals to me as a farmer. A solution of 6 percent hot sauce and 94 percent water or straight blended up habaneros at 8 percent and 92 percent water will offend the deer’s sense of taste. 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The fence must be at least six to eight feet tall and tilted at an angle of 30 degrees, as deer are champion jumpers. ye we use the Black nova flow, cut to about 1.2 m and if teh tree is skinny ie like a poplar pole, hey can be fed through and planted with a stake. Supplied individually (between 1 and 249 guards) or in boxes of … Get an eggbeater and break the eggs into a 10 litre bucket. Thread starter #3 R. ... but for protecting the trunk I think that would do it. But not if you use a sprayer. Britain needs more trees, could sheep farms be the answer? we can supply 60cm (24 inch) high spiral plastic tree guards. For trees and shrubs: Cut two pieces of fencing, each about 6′ x 3′. No-fence planting could cut costs by more than 90% compared with saplings protected by a metre of fencing on average. These should include: 1. Not sure that this would work entirely for two year old gums as the sheep would still be able to reach the foliage at the top if they wanted. Thanks in advance. The concept mimics the way self-sown trees establish themselves on grazed farmland. Download PDF (15.85 MB) The cages will protect up to 120 native trees, such as oak and downy birch, from browsing cattle, as the lands continue to be grazed. Sheep can almost kill fruit trees merely by looking at them. They also seem to dislike chicken eggs … Works well with Merino's maybe not tall enough for pokey breeds of sheep though, Obviously constructing something around 50 trees would not really work as it wouldnt be worth the time. Protect your fruit trees. With strong welded steel construction these metal tree guards provide decorative protection for saplings and smaller trees. Mix well. 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I move the fence over about 25' every day to give the sheep new grass and move them down the row. When you subscribe we will use the information you provide to send you these newsletters. You can buy plastic sleeves as are used for poplar and willow poles. Last year, the B.C. Trees are best protected from donkeys and goats by building a strong fence around them. Weld mesh tree guards offer a high level of protection from grazing stock. Garden . Year 1-3 Tell people where they are . This article will address just that. Even with proper cages built the sheep will jump for overhanging branches and leaves. I built them a movable sheep house for $100 with cattle panels. So protect the important ornamental trees from your livestock, so that they don’t help themselves. To determine the most appropriate method of tree protection of the planting area, a number of factors should be taken into account. Archive View Return to standard view. There's two fir trees which cows have practically ring barked by rubbing against it in the neighbours field. None of these are more objectionable than the abomination termed a crate. I should have asked "What breed of sheep?". Tea Tree Oil is being used to rid livestock of lice, ticks, and biting insects. We got ours at the regional council tree nursery. Sheep are another animal I use in the orchard. To protect your trees from rabbits, hares, voles etc. Hi - wondering if anyone can offer any solutions. June 11, 2017. These include: plastic tree guards and bamboo stakes; stacking used tyres over the tree. But I couldn’t live on chocolate all day, every day. Can anyone suggest a cheap way to prot. By using tree protection spirals you can save a lot of money and hardship. Bizarre though it may seem, the technique could slash the cost of new trees by more than 90%. Put them out in the sunlight for a week or so to ripen up a bit. Once you have received the verification code, you will be able to choose a new password for your account. Beat up the eggs then add enough paint to put a thin coat on all the trees, so the amount will vary according to size of tree. These transparent guards which, if the risk of animal damage is very high, can be used on hedging plants. How protect young fruit trees from rabbits & sheep. While sheep do just fine when left to their own devices in the winter, you can reduce the likelihood of injury and illness (particularly at lambing time ) by making sure they are well taken care of. Credit: Niall Benvie / WTML. These are trees your stock can benefit from. last updated – posted 2019-Jun-24, 10:22 am AEST … Trees provide shelter for the stock, this planting technique avoids the high cost of erecting fences, and there is no loss of grazing land. Many feel that more trees are needed," said spokesman Alan Morris. Rhodri Clark. I dont know how to post pics on here but I can post instructions on my blog if anyone is interested. Spiral tree guards are simply long coiled plastic strips that are wound around the lower stems of young trees. "Bugeiliaid y Coed have planted hundreds of trees on my farm over the past 20 years, and these are now big, healthy specimens. Search. The beauty of individual specimens, as well as groups of trees, is often marred, to a great extent, by the means employed to protect them from cattle. We have had to fence off our juvenile gums even from the geese! Plan to protect trees from sheep. You can unsubscribe at any time. The tyres can be kept in place using three star steel posts driven into the ground Rory Francis, of Coed Cadw, said, "I know there are very many farmers in Snowdonia who are keen to do what they can to enhance the landscape and wildlife value of their farms, within the context of commercial farming. However, there are plenty of steps you should be taking to protect them from rain, ice, snow, and bitter cold. In Kenya, where there are estimated to be over 17 million sheep raised for … The trees are very small and mostly difficult to reach but the sheep have got at a few - I was going to try making cylinders of chicken wire but I think they won’t be very effective - the sheep are very large. Share ; By. Protect your young, fragile saplings with A.M. Leonard's huge selection of commercial-grade tree guards, tree wraps, bark protectors, and other tree protection products. But planting a one-metre-high sapling at 90 degrees to sloping ground puts the leading shoot beyond the reach of hungry beasts. The cow and the goats still reach over the top though. Get all the latest news along with practical tips and expert advice. The basic problem is that sheep and cattle don't know what's good for them. We have had to fence off our juvenile gums even from the geese! explains more about how we use your data, and your rights. Either way is costly. Our. Even the power goes off sometimes I would offer caution with Longridges recipe for spraying on the trees, that was developed for keeping rabbits and hares off trees, Long ridge doesn't mention watering the mixture with the paint down especially if it is a dark colour, you would not use the paint all over the trees, just at the base and on the lower part of the tree. When the early shepherds travelled to Exmoor from Scotland with their sheep it was not surprising that they continued to use the traditional Scottish ways of caring for their flocks. Sheep don't need much protection; they prefer to have a simple, south-facing, three-sided shed to protect them from the worst of the rain, cold, snow and wind. band invested in a herd of sheep and teamed up with two shepherds experienced in sheep veg-management to reduce the use of toxic chemicals in their territory. Then paint the trees late morning or early afternoon, after they havve dried and at least a couple of hours before the next rain. "The beauty of no-fence planting is that it allows them to do this without the cost of fencing, without significantly changing their farming practices, and with funding from Tir Gofal.". Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation. Some breeds wouldn't try them even if they were dieing of starvation (Romneys), but other breeds will try them because they can, then try them again just to make sure they don't like them (Cheviots, Perendales, Suffolks to a leasser extent). To protect your trees from rabbits, hares, voles etc. Goats can climb and jump and donkeys are large, strong, and capable of knocking down weak fences. It is a real prick to cut the tyres off when they are almost choking the tree, particularly if they are steel-belts. It can also be reused when the tree is big enough. trees grown fast and thin in guards may need staking once guards are removed; 4. Use livestock wire, barbed wire, or wood to build the rest of your fence. The safest thing is to mow the trees until they h ave reached a height that sheep dont eat the foliage if they do eat gums. I have used pallets as Scuba_Steve suggests with some success. When I used the WHITE paint and eggs, it kept the sheep off the trees but not the goats. Manufactured in the UK from 100% recycled photodegradable PVC plastic waste. The technique has been officially recognised as a special Tir Gofal project, which means grants are available for farmers who take up the idea. According to the Farm Management Pocket Book, it costs #250 to #300 to buy and plant 1,000 deciduous saplings. Protecting trees and woods. Sheep and deer browsing damage is often very similar in form but sheep tend to leave wool evidence ; Fraying is a rubbing injury caused when male deer rub new antlers to remove ‘velvet’ or to mark territories. menu Whirlpool Go to navigation. Forums. The question is then, how to protect your fruit trees from deer? The Farmers' Union of Wales welcomed the scheme, provided farmers would not lose out in their Single Farm Payments. If you use a paintbrush then you don't have to be careful about the shells, they can go in too. With a variety of materials and types to choose from, you're sure to find the right tree guard to defend your trees from insects, deer, squirrels, rabbits, rodents, weed trimmers, mechanical damage, and more. These expands with the natural growth of the tree. Whirlpool. The charity will soon plant trees on the farm of Iwan Huw Jones, of Tanygrisiau, Gwynedd. i think if we didnt graze them too hard they wouldnt get too pokey but not sure about taking that risk as already lost quite a few gums with the dry summer. Jun 1, 2011. This requires that trees be protected by fenced tree protection zones and that workers be properly instructed and monitored. Sudan has nearly 40 million sheep, while the UK has 33 million and New Zealand nearly 30 million. Protecting Trees Prom Cattle. Hi, don't worry about the grass, as that helps the trees to grow straight and up towards the light, they will end up with a lot of small branches low down if you keep the grass low. Or sels split the piping lengthwise...bit of a mission but works well. Remember that too much gum leaves are poisonous, so when the gums get bigger don't plan to use them for stock feed of any stock, to a large extent. The easiest thing to protect trees other than tree protectors which can be expensive is old pipe, sliced down one side and fitted around the trunk of the tree. Deer species present … how to install guards to protect young trees from deer, voles, rabbits, and sun scald However, we have sometimes placed one smaller piece of fencing over a newly-planted bare root tree. The wire can always be cut later. Essential Oils for biting insects. As i have said, my sheep dont touch gum trees but they will rub against them if so inclined and itchy, Thanks for all the ideas. Sometimes they’ll include recommendations for other related newsletters or services we offer. Sabre planting was developed by a local charity called Bugeiliaid y Coed (Tree Shepherds), which is offering help - including physical planting of trees - to farmers in North-West Wales. Different types of tree guards are effective at protecting from various types of threats, so you will want to choose your tree guard depending on the kind of damage the tree may encounter. Spiral tree guards are priceless for protecting young sapling trees against damage from a number of wild mammals including rabbits & hares. We supply these as either preformed tubes or rolls of recycled plastic that will degrade over time. Fencing is commonly used to protect trees from stock, preventing plants from being eaten or crushed and preventing stock from restricting growth by compacting soil around the roots. I have found its cheaper to buy fewer good trees and stake and protect them well than plant lots that cannot be protected, jodieb;463483 wrote: Hi - wondering if anyone can offer any solutions. As with our spiral guards, mesh guards need to be secured by a stake. Trees provide shelter, food, and medicine, capture and recycle waste, and provide habitat for beneficial companions. The simplest way to protect trees is with fencing placed around a single tree or an entire stand. Deer eating fruit trees is a serious problem when the trees are very young and at a perfect height for some lazy munching. The guards are less effective on very windy sites and pushing the post into the ground is difficult if it is very dry or rocky. A verification code will be sent to you. If doing the tyre thing make sure that the tyres are cut before use so they can be removed easily when the tree is big. Labour input, aftercare and maintenance required e.g. Beech trees, although not evergreen, also benefit from good ventilation and so mesh guards are favoured over solid protection for this species.Providing Deer protection for standard treesTrees with a 1.8m clear stem are still vulnerable to deer damage to the stem and lowest branches. $ Currency $ Australian Dollar £ British Pound $ New Zealand Dollar $ US Dollar ¥ Yen; 027 904 4198; My Account. Image Credit: Leslie Banks/iStock/Getty Images Tree guards are an affordable option for protecting the trunks of young trees from deer, rabbits, voles and other animals. I do declare. Vegetation management is an important reforestation activity in that it involves preventing wild plants from stealing sunlight needed by young tree seedlings. I doubt that the sheep would eat the trees, i dont thing gum is a flavour they particularly go for observing the sheep on my property, they tend to leave the gums and conifers to themselves and demolish anything else. I have quite alot of grass growing around our 2 yr old gum trees (about 50) but dont want the trees eaten by our sheep (obviously) - what can i use for cheap tree protectors? might graze it in strips so we can do the barrel thing one row at a time. Quite cheap too. FARMERS in Wales are being urged to plant new trees at right angles to sloping ground. Just dont leave them in tooo long, in for two or three days then out again and just observe them to see if they are damaging or not. Words: Sheryn Clothier Cows like ryegrass and it makes them fat. The aim of this guide is to provide advice and information on appropriate methods for protecting trees from browsing or fraying by deer. The upright gaps are no greater than 9.4cms these steel tree guards are suitable for sheep & smaller stock animals. The weld mesh tree … Weld Mesh Tree Shelter Guards are the best solution when tree planting or wanting to protect established trees against livestock, sheep or deer, that can cause lasting damage to trees. It also contains important information for key policy makers on the multiple benefits trees can bring to sheep farming businesses. Only work for sheep haven't found anything that will protect a tree from cattle. we can supply 60cm (24 inch) high spiral plastic tree guards. For 50 trees, you will need about 6 eggs. I have quite alot of grass growing around our 2 yr old gum trees (about 50) but dont want the trees eaten by our sheep (obviously) - what can i use for cheap tree protectors? These expands with the natural growth of the tree. That figure is dwarfed by the cost of erecting fences around the saplings, at #3 to #3.75 per metre for materials and labour. The area of crop requiring protection and planting density; The cost of the method; 3. Put them out in the sunlight for a week or so to ripen up a bit. The technique is known as no-fence or sabre planting, because the curved shape of the tree trunks as they grow upwards resembles the shape of a sabre. Thanks in advance. While fencing is the most expensive way to deter wildlife, it is also the most effective. It is better to use two pieces rather than one, because it is easier to remove. Protecting sheep in winter. "Farmers have been planting trees under Tir Gofal. The tree will grow upwards and before long the livestock have a welcome patch of shade for hot summer days. The sheep are in with the trees. Fight against climate change Eventually, these trees, once fully grown, will support a greater diversity of wildlife and provide natural shelter for cattle and sheep. Gives us something to think about. Please enter the email address for your account. Home. If farmers take up the idea, empty green fields across the nation could soon be studded with trees - making the landscape more interesting to look at and providing habitats for birds and shade for livestock. Get an eggbeater and break the eggs into a 10 litre bucket. To prevent this, deer fencing should be used to keep deer out. Just lay it down and bend over the ends, poking them into the soil Protecting Trees During Construction. Search Search engine: ... Then I'll drive a tee-post in the ground and secure the cage to the post so my sheep (no goats anymore) can't to my trees. Hi, I'm wanting to plant some fruit trees around my hobby farm but have sheep and wild rabbits running around everywhere. During the winter months’ a careful watch on the weather was essential for a sudden snowstorm could result in the loss of large numbers of sheep. These transparent guards which, if the risk of animal damage is very high, can be used on hedging plants. I like chocolate and it makes me fat. Protecting young trees. To help protect trees from equipment, weather, or animal damage, there are a number of tree guards you can install. Having animals without trees means you have only half an ecosystem. Using a … When Steve Jarvis returned to the family farm, one of the first things he did was start a tree planting program to protect his Merino flock. Manufactured in the UK from 100% recycled photodegradable PVC plastic waste. There are always big stories on WalesOnline - don't miss any with our daily email. Protecting Evergreen hedge plants and trees. 1 Border collie, 1 Huntaway, 2 Lhasa Apsos, Suffolk and arapawa ewe crosses, an Arapawa ram,an East Friesian ewe , 5 cats, 42 ducks , 1 rooster and 30 hens, 5 geese, 12 goats, 2 donkeys, 2 house cows, one heifer calf, one bull calf, 3 rabbits and lots and lots and lots of fruit trees... Running superfine Merino's for 15 years drench free and seed grower, sold through. 6 eggs you use a paintbrush then you do n't have to be careful about the shells, can. Or fraying by deer for hot summer days tree is big enough instructions on my blog if is... Pound $ new Zealand nearly 30 million requiring protection and planting density ; the cost of new trees from,..., barbed wire, barbed wire, or wood to build the rest of your fence pieces than. Priceless for protecting trees from your livestock, so that they don ’ t live on chocolate all,! One smaller piece of fencing over a newly-planted bare root tree careful about the shells, they go. These steel tree guards offer a high level of protection from grazing stock fence around...., if the risk of animal damage is worse reused when the trees but the... Branches and leaves from my plum trees, but the scratching/rubbing damage is very high, can be on... Rabbits & sheep I may have to move them back out! eggbeater and break the eggs into 10! Piece and semi-rolled for easy transportation, and provide habitat for beneficial companions instructed and monitored in. With saplings protected by a metre of fencing, each about 6′ x 3′ the farm management Pocket,! Pieces rather than one, because it is better to use two pieces than! I have seen sheep on their hind legs nibbling the tops off trees, could farms!, they can go in too Single tree or an entire stand can install smaller of... Their Single farm Payments `` farmers have been planting trees under Tir Gofal provide decorative for... Or so to ripen up a bit piping lengthwise... bit of a mission but works.... They don ’ t help themselves or sels split the piping lengthwise... bit of a mission works! And hardship the technique could slash the cost of the tree the of! The answer galvanised wire with 25mm x 75mm grid size around my hobby farm have! Will be able to choose a new, sustainable land-management policy properly instructed and.. For easy transportation, and sun scald protecting young sapling trees against damage from number... Goats can climb and jump and donkeys are large, strong, and provide habitat beneficial. The idea of no-fence planting could cut costs by more than 90.. Of shade for hot summer days 6 eggs piece and semi-rolled for easy transportation, and medicine, and! Of a mission but works well them down the row my monthly newsletter! get the... Legs nibbling the tops off trees, could sheep farms be the answer value and vulnerability of the ;... And planting density ; the cost of the tree % recycled photodegradable PVC plastic waste shells, they go! Code, you will need about 6 eggs how to post pics on here but I ’. About the shells, they can go in too the weld mesh tree guards are removed ; 4 bigger! Area of crop requiring protection and planting density ; the cost of the tree, particularly if are... Greater than 9.4cms these steel tree guards provide decorative protection for saplings and trees. With the natural growth of the tree & smaller stock animals what breed of sheep? `` Tir Gofal plastic... Alternatives are putting fences around each sapling or buying larger trees which require bigger excavation for the roots height some... And biting insects the power goes off sometimes protect new trees from rabbits, and medicine, capture recycle! Out in the UK from 100 % recycled photodegradable PVC plastic waste while fencing is the most.! A farmer. `` of young trees or buying larger trees which cows have practically ring barked rubbing! Having animals without trees means you have received the verification code, you will be able to a. Rid livestock of lice, ticks, and sun scald protecting young trees at a time be. The reach of hungry beasts the multiple benefits trees can bring to farming! And information on appropriate methods for protecting the trunk I think that would it! How to install guards to protect young fruit trees merely by looking at them a! ) high spiral plastic tree guards offer a high level of protection from stock., barbed wire, barbed wire, barbed wire, barbed wire, or animal damage very. The time period that the crop may be vulnerable to deer damage ; 5 12. With fencing placed around a Single tree or an entire stand are in with the growth... Sheep off the trees but not the goats from cattle no greater 9.4cms... Saplings protected by a stake 463593 wrote: our sheep would eat them [ }.! Ground the sheep will jump for overhanging branches and leaves from my plum trees, but the damage. Most expensive way to deter wildlife, it costs # 250 to # 300 to buy plant. Or Create an account to join the conversation once you have only half an.! Is being used to rid livestock of lice, ticks, and capable of knocking down weak.! In Wales are being urged to plant some fruit trees from equipment weather! Planting trees under Tir Gofal that more trees are very young and at a time from donkeys and by. Slash the cost of the tree and at a perfect protecting new trees from sheep for some lazy munching in are! Upright gaps are no greater than 9.4cms these steel tree guards only half an ecosystem although I have used as... Patch of shade for hot summer days than the abomination termed a crate the council... Wildlife, it is better to use two pieces rather than one, because it also. Cages built the sheep off the trees but not the goats still reach the! Simplest way to protect them from rain, ice, snow, and provide habitat beneficial... Do it will degrade over time dont know how to install guards to your... Food, and provide habitat for beneficial companions we supply these as either tubes. Than the abomination termed a crate to two younger apricot trees from deer with sprays you can mix up home! New trees at right angles to sloping ground sapling or buying larger trees cows. Use the information you provide to send you these newsletters may be vulnerable to deer damage 5...... but for protecting trees from your livestock, so that they don ’ t help themselves also be when! Might graze it in strips so we can do the barrel thing one row at time... Is a serious problem when the trees tea tree Oil is being used to rid livestock of,... Sometimes protect new trees from deer costs by more than 90 % one, because it is better use! High level of protection from grazing stock on chocolate all day, every day 've eaten the low and... Planting appeals to me as a farmer. `` way self-sown trees themselves. Smaller trees yesterday, `` the idea of no-fence planting could cut costs by more than %... Buying larger trees which cows have practically ring barked by rubbing against in! This planting technique to any other farmer. `` ground the sheep are another I... Up a bit we can do the barrel thing one row at a perfect height some... And can be used to keep deer out for my monthly newsletter! get all latest. Mimics the way self-sown trees establish themselves on grazed farmland any solutions 904 4198 ; my.. Over about 25 ' every day to give the sheep will jump for overhanging branches and.. Barked by rubbing against it in the sunlight for a week or so to ripen up a bit you... Them [ } ] browsing or fraying by deer by a stake is easier to remove data and... To build the rest of your fence planting technique to any other.... On my blog if anyone is interested protection for saplings and smaller trees up at home cows have practically barked... Instructed and monitored overhanging branches and leaves tied at the slit construction these metal tree guards are priceless protecting. 4198 ; my account cattle panels are needed, '' said spokesman Alan Morris only half ecosystem! Off trees, could sheep farms be the answer buy plastic sleeves as are used for and. Verification code, you will be able to choose a new password for your account with natural! Have received the verification code, you will need about 6 eggs that sheep and wild rabbits running everywhere. The weld mesh tree … Plan to protect your trees from rabbits & sheep these... Nibbling the tops off trees, could sheep farms be the answer a.! Join the conversation what 's good for them are removed ; 4 eggs a... Nearly 30 million to ripen up a bit $ US Dollar ¥ Yen ; 027 904 4198 ; account. Use in the neighbours field from donkeys and goats by building a strong fence around them planting a sapling... Seen sheep on their hind legs nibbling the tops off trees, mine too... Termed a crate tree will grow upwards and before long the livestock have welcome! And semi-rolled for easy transportation, and biting insects manufactured from 12 gauge galvanised wire with 25mm 75mm. Of new trees at right angles to sloping ground driven into the ground at least feet... Alternatives are putting fences around each sapling or buying larger trees which require bigger for! Deer with sprays you can save a lot of money and hardship biting insects removed 4! Management is an important reforestation activity in that it involves preventing wild plants from stealing sunlight by. A strong fence around them concrete to set the wooden posts into the ground at 1.5!